Bernadette: Hi I’m Bernadette Doyle and you are watching Client Magnets TV. We’re doing something slightly different today because I am joined by Steven Sonsino. Steven is at a very interesting stage in his business and we are basically going to have a chat about it and see what action steps we can come up with for you.

Steven: Tell me what to do right?

Bernadette: Absolutely. So why don’t you, for the benefit of our viewers just explain a little bit about your business to set the scene?

Steven: Fantastic. I teach at business schools around the world in London, the Middle East, the Far East, in America and I help people become better managers, better leaders and the really exciting part about that is people are making this transition to the next level in their own individual careers and what is really scary is that actually I find that I’m in that place right now myself in terms of my internet business. I’m trying to create programs and seminars and products online and what I’m finding is a great feeling of scaredness. I don’t know if that exists as a word but I was really attracted to talking to you about how this might work because I think that’s where you’re at so I’m hoping you’ve got some advice for me.

Bernadette: So understandably because you’re about to make the transition yourself, so there’s a certain degree of excitement and scaredness around that. What would you say is your biggest challenge right now in your business?

Steven: I think the biggest challenge is the launch. Just getting it moving. I think I’ve got the elements in place. I’ve read a lot of material, I’ve done a lot of programs. You’ve got some great advice and material as part of the programs that you do. I do squeeze pages, I have a newsletter in place, got a couple of thousand subscribers there, got a few thousand twitter followers, I’ve tinkered with iTunes and video but that’s it. I’m really just playing if I’m honest with you. I feel I’ve got the elements in place, I don’t feel I’ve got a strategy. I don’t feel I’ve got a coherent strategy and being an entrepreneur, I love the ideas piece but trying to make it together and focus it. So I think if I had to sum up all of that it’s something about focus and clarity of, “What do I do now?” because I could do any of these things and I love it all. If you can help me choose, it’s not just next steps but it’s “where is this going?” kind of piece. Does this make any sense to you?

Bernadette: It totally makes sense and the situation you are in, it is really common if that helps you feel better about it.

Steven: That is kind of reassuring.

Bernadette: It’s not unusual to be in a situation where you’ve got all the pieces and it becomes slightly overwhelming because there are almost too many pieces and I say sometimes it’s like having a jigsaw where you’ve got all the pieces but you don’t actually know what the picture is on the box.

Steven: Get out of my head, that’s just in my head.

Bernadette: Let’s start there because once we figure out what the big picture is then we’ll be able to look at the pieces and go these are the pieces to focus on now and these are the things that you can leave to one side. Tell me where would you like your business to be 12 months from now? What would you like your business to look and feel like?

Steven: From all the elements that I think are there, I think the most lucrative and the most exciting piece for me is something that will blend the teaching, the live teaching that I do, but also generate some residual income. I think what that sounds like is the membership aspect of what I’m doing. I think there’s got to be some aspect of live work there. I don’t want to launch a single workshop I think because that’s a launch it once and then what happens at the end of it. So I think that a year from now it would be great to imagine a membership program with a degree of live stuff happening and maybe spinning off out of that, opportunities to launch products. That’s kind of how I imagine it but how to get that moving, that sounds like an awful lot to me.

Bernadette: We’ll break it down, it will get clearer, promise. So what about financially where would you like to be 12 months from now?

Steven: I think it would be fantastic if the core of what was coming in was enough to then fund the next level and what’s neat about where I am is I do have a salary right now so this is, it’s not a toy, it’s not a game but it would be neat for it to be self-sustaining. So it needs to generate some thousands to make this work. Probably more than, it’s probably got to be enough to fund all of the computer stuff that I want to do, the video stuff that I think I’d like to do, it’s got to be able to hire hotel rooms so I’ve got a target in mind of something between ?50,000 and ?100,000 absolute minimum. That would be cool to make that happen because then it could maybe go to the next level but I’m under-pitching here. I don’t know, I’ve just done a rough budget, a rough target. Does that sound about right? I don’t know.

Bernadette: Yeah, so notice there’s a couple of things I want you to notice. Notice first of all your reluctance to name a figure. I mean you haven’t even said a figure yet, you’ve just got it down between ?50,000 and ?100,000.

Steven: Which is a bit of a big one isn’t it?

Bernadette: And also notice how it’s like you’re looking for me to give you permission. Because you’ve just said, “Do you think that sounds like it’s ok?” I know. I have this effect on people but I’m ok with that.

Steven: You’re just too blunt.

Bernadette: No, I’m actually being quite gentle with you.

Steven: Oh, thank you.

Bernadette: We’ll do the tough love on another episode. I am being gentle. So I, say, “You’ve got to name it to claim it.”

Steven: Ok.

Bernadette: So I want you to name a figure.

Steven: What now?

Bernadette: Mmhmm.

Steven: Can I have five minutes? Can I phone a friend?

Bernadette: Well one thing that helped and to help you come up with a figure, one of the things I have people do is list out everything you want to do n your business an in your life in the next 12 months. That would include the things that you mentioned like the things that you want to invest in in your business like hotels and to run the events and the video and the filming and all of that. That will be really good for you to do as an exercise after this anyway, to sit down and really map out what that figure would be. And also for you, because this isn’t just about survival and having enough to cover the bills, it’s about you stepping into leadership yourself and living a great life and you deserve to be well supported and have all you need and live in a nice place and go on vacations to where you want to go to if that’s what appeals to you. That figure you name now won’t be cast in stone but like you narrowed it down to ?50,000-?100,000.

Steven: That’s me playing, isn’t it? You know, be brutal Bernadette, I know you want to be. Hey, can we be dangerous ?500,000.

Bernadette: ?500,000 yeah, that’s cool. Yeah.

Steven: I’m scared now.

Bernadette: Yeah, I know you are but it’s ok you’re in the right place.

Steven: Can we edit that out?

Bernadette: No we won’t edit it out because it demonstrates so beautifully how frightened people are of setting the goal, the goal that scares you but you wouldn’t have come up with that figure if it wasn’t possible for you. There’s somewhere inside of you that knows absolutely that that figure is achievable for you. There’s another part of you that’s like, “Can I really do this?”

Steven: Jekyll and Hyde I suppose.

Bernadette: I say you’ve got to name it to claim it but one of the reasons that we’re frightened of naming it is because we think, “What if I name it and I put it out there and then I don’t make it?” So what if you don’t make it, what if you go for ?500,000 and you fail and you end up with ?250,000 how would that be.

Steven: Well that’s quite nice actually.

Bernadette: Yeah, it’s still better than ?50,000 isn’t it?

Steven: Yes, alright I see where you’re going with this. She’s awful isn’t she, does anybody else work this way?

Bernadette: So it’s ?500,000. Ok so then what we need to do is we need to break down how that ?500,000 might come in. So you are thinking about running a membership program. I know that the membership program you are thinking about is quite high end.

Steven: Yes.

Bernadette: So tell us more about that.

Steven: It seems to me that just looking at the numbers, and I have tried to run numbers, I don’t think I’ve believed them, you know when you look at high end programs they range from ?5,000, ?10,000 and some of them are just incredible, unbelievable to me. If you can get 5, 10 a dozen people, 15 people it would seem to me to do nothing else if I could get a dozen people, 10 people in the room paying, ?10,000, ?15,000, ?20,000 maybe would be a good way towards doing that. So maybe we are beginning to articulate what the fee level might be to cover that. We would then need to go to hotels and check out what the costings might be, that would also say from the rest of that I’m going to have to launch three products in the next year and generate ?1,000 or ?2,000 for each of those products, sell how many. Ok I can see how this is beginning to work now because you are actually forcing me to spell out what this looks in real, hard commercial terms. I’m supposed to do this.

Bernadette: Well, here’s the thing even as you started to break it down, I mean there are lots of ways you can make ?500,000, you could have one client who pays you ?500,000 or you could have 10 clients who pay you ?50,000 or you could have 100 clients paying you ?5,000 or you could have 1000 clients paying you ?500 so there’s lots of different variables but what I noticed is how much you were referencing other things.

Steven: Ok.

Bernadette: It’s almost like you were using those as your guide post for what’s possible for you and that’s a mistake.

Steven: Ok, another one.

Bernadette: Well, this is your path, this is your business and what you’re doing is very common, that’s what people do especially with a new business. They look around and go what are other people charging and they try to slot in underneath that or around that. We end up like limbo dancing. Especially if you go into a market where someone else is charging a certain amount and then you’re, “Well, they’re there but they’ve been doing this five years and I’m not there yet so I’m going to have to pitch myself here,” and you can end up with this limbo dance effect where the bars just going down and down. This is your business and it’s your decision and you’ve got really powerful information. You can make a big difference.

Steven: There’s something here as well, psychologically about believing in yourself is something I’m taking away from this.

Bernadette: Yeah, absolutely.

Steven: The other piece that scares me is actually, and it’s the name of one of your programs, it’s the idea of stepping up. That’s really scary actually and not just the naming it business and structuring it, what it looks like and the limbo thing, I love that idea and maybe I don’t want to pitch myself below other people actually, actually I do want to be considered high end and deluxe in a certain way and if people need to dig deeper to share a part of that and to gain that to go onto the next level well maybe I am worth it. You know the whole L’Oreal thing. That’s a tough appreciation to think that I’m worth it in that market that I’m not even playing in yet. That’s hard, tell me, how did you deal with that because you’ve done fantastic in that. How do you deal with that?

Bernadette: Because I think our businesses, we talk about growing our businesses but the truth is our businesses grow us.

Steven: Ok.

Bernadette: And you’re right, I do have a program called Stepping Up because I know that my journey so far is a series of stepping up and I know I’m also about to step up into something else and your knees should be knocking, my knees have knocked every step every up level and it really is, to quote the book, “You feel the fear and you do it anyway.” I know a lot of very successful business owners who’ve grown big businesses and when you actually speak to them privately you find out that of course there’s that moment of doubt and, “Will people really buy this and can I really charge this,” of course, it is natural that you have that but it’s like you just do it spite of that.

Steven: Ok, do it anyway.

Bernadette: The other thing that I want to say to you is my sense is there’s a piece around permission and trying to fit in. You’re not meant to fit in, you’re meant to stand out.

Steven: Ok.

Bernadette: You’re theme, where you’re gifted, is leadership. If you’re going to teach leadership then you’re going to have to embody it and demonstrate it. This process that you’re going through in relation to your business, this is brilliant because it is actually going to, it’s like you modeling and going through exactly what you will be teaching other people and you are only ever going to take people as far as you’ve been yourself. It’s great that you’re feeling that fear and it’s great that you’re here having this conversation and you’re going, “Right, I’m scare,” which is amazing for a man especially to admit that so good on you for doing that. You should have a sweetie for that. It’s great that you’re still here, you’re going what’s next. My intuition is right for the ?500,000 the place that you should be playing and I think you’re capable of playing is somewhere between the ?10,000 and ?50,000 mark for a program and that’s based on what I found out about you so far and about your skills and expertise. I’d have you look at 50 people in a ?10,000 program or possible 10 people in a ?50,000 program.

Steven: Scary. You know what’s coming out of this for me is just the whole paradox thing and it’s like you’re in the Total Perspective Vortex in Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy, do you know this?

Bernadette: I don’t but go ahead.

Steven: There’s this whole, this is what I do with other people and help them see this and make those steps but actually applying it the other way round and almost looking inwards, that’s a whole different ball game. What I’m actually experiencing right now is a sense of perhaps what my own clients go through and stepping into their shoes which is really helpful so this has helped me in more ways than you can imagine and how they must feel about taking those steps. This has been really helpful. I think if I had one big ‘Aha’ it’s this. It’s just the power of the whole naming piece and articulating what is that brutal financial goal at the end of it because actually so much flows from that. I think also attached to that and I’m just verbalizing this is if you’ve got that number there actually you have to work back to kind of, “What the heck do I have to do now to make that happen?”

Bernadette: It makes you accountable.

Steven: Yeah. And that whole focus piece really comes through for me, so this for me has been really helpful but if I had one last question for you, you said there was going to be something else coming? What are you doing? Your knees are knocking about the next thing.

Bernadette: Yeah because I’m going through an up level myself to see that.

Steven: Tell me now.

Bernadette: No, I can’t sorry.

Steven: You can stop the camera, tell me now.

Bernadette: I’ll tell you after we’ve stopped filming.

Steven: Is there anything else you are going to hit me over the head with?

Bernadette: Yeah, so I think if you were going to go for a program, create a program somewhere between the ?10,000 and ?50,000 mark what are the things that you feel you would most need to market and sell that program.

Steven: What I think I’m quite good at is front of house so to speak. I’m pretty good at delivering programs and seminars, I’ve written books, I’ve done some videos so all that, the creative aspects of the business, the additional entrepreneurial things, ok. Back office scares me.

Bernadette: Ok.

Steven: So the idea of finding some good support, outsourcing some of the back end piece, I’ve played with some of the shopping cart systems out there, I’ve played with some of the newsletter HTML coding and all of that and I love playing with al that, I’m a guy but I think I need help actually and I watch you and how you’ve built your team and I admire that. First steps, what was the first piece that you did? I’m not going to ask you for permission anymore but what did you do?

Bernadette: I’m going to answer what I think you should do rather than what I did because I don’t think the way I did it would be how I’d do it now. It sounds to me like what you really need to put in place is an ops manager, like a strong person who’s strong on detail and systems and who really loves running the machinery and believes in what you do so you can just be out there shining and leading the way and being the leader and they’re providing the structure and the foundation behind it. I think that one of the things that’s tough for us because I’m like you, I like being out front as well and I don’t like the detail and I don’t like the admin and so for me the belief was, “Who would like this?” and I realized there are actually people in the world that love that stuff.

Steven: Yeah?

Bernadette: Yeah, exactly, isn’t that amazing and they don’t want to be out front they want to be doing it and they love being connected to someone who’s got a big vision because that’s part of their mission to support and birth the vision so what I would have you do is get really clear on the qualities of that person, almost like write it out, present tense, I’m so grateful now that I have found and attracted the perfect operations manager for my business and start to list out all the things they are taking care of. I think the one thing I would also have you look for in that person because you are looking for someone who is strong on detail but you are going to want someone who’s got a little bit of drive as well, that they are going to be able to have the tough conversations and be bad cop at certain times so you are going to be looking for that little piece of energy within that.

Steven: First step, ops manager.

Bernadette: Yeah.

Steven: And then delegating stuff to them.

Bernadette: Yeah and it’s really interesting that when you get really clear on who or what you are looking for and you write it down that’s when we start inviting the little synchronicities, the little coincidences, a friend of a friend suddenly mentions a person and they show up but the best support only shows up equal to our willingness to be supported so you deserve it. You’ve got a big dream and there is the team.

Steven: Cool. It looks like I’ve got a lot to do.

Bernadette: Of course you’ve got a lot to do because it’s a big vision that you’re birthing but we got you focused on two things that you can get started with.

Steven: Fantastic.

Bernadette: So I hope you enjoyed that and hearing Steven being pulled through the coals in his business has given you some insight into some of the things that you could be changing in your business. If you would like to be featured on an episode of Client Magnets TV do leave a comment below and we’ll follow up with you if you leave all your contact details and make sure you tune in next time and I look forward to seeing you on the next episode of Client Magnets TV.

Steven: Terrific. Are you going to tell me now?